My topic may not seem directly related to bodybuilding, and it isn’t, but it is still important, and it DOES relate to bodybuilding because people in bodybuilding deal with depression, despair, and hopelessness, just like the rest of the world.
I have noticed a lot of talk about suicide on social media lately, and the majority of people are posting about how there are so many other ways to deal with depression and that there is no good reason for suicide, and a lot of people even go so far as to call it “cowardly” or “selfish.” I’m not sure that most people are very empathetic to what someone who is suicidal is really going through. Most of the responses, though on the surface, sound empathetic, are really quite dismissive. I’m not saying I completely understand it, either, but when I’m the compassionate one who has to say maybe people should be a little more understanding, that should say something.
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There are some people in this world who are truly hopeless. I doubt anyone just all of a sudden decides that suicide is the answer. It would seem to me that suicide ends up being an act of despair after a very lengthy amount of time trying to make their situation better, or a long time of really pondering how they are going to make a change and deal with their feelings, instead of killing themselves.
I think it’s pretty easy for people who haven’t dealt with much despair and the feeling of hopelessness to not only NOT understand, but to make it sound like there are so many other viable options. Are there really? Or are you just trying to be positive? Living longer if that life is nothing but despair is not for you to decide if it’s is good for that person or not.
There are also those whose efforts to deal with depression are so good that when they finally do kill themselves, everyone is shocked because that person “seemed to have a charmed life.” None of us know what any of us are truly dealing with. Hell, you could have people in your own home that are suicidal and not have a clue, but if they do die by suicide, we all talk about how we could have done something or should have done something, and that we should have seen the signs – even when that person went out of their way to make sure that others didn’t see the signs while they were dealing with their shit. This goes for men in particular, and if I am not mistaken, the percentage of men who die by suicide is considerably higher than women.
I have worked in juvenile detention and residential treatment and the “rule” – whether discussed or not – was that those who talk about suicide typically are depressed, but they don’t want to kill themselves or they would just act on it. Those who act on it and are successful are the ones that truly have had enough and felt they had nothing else to live for.
To say that someone is selfish and not thinking about the people their actions would impact is basically an admission that you don’t understand how someone feels in a suicidal position. I would bet that most people are tormented by what impact it would have on others, but they are so hopeless that they are convinced (and it is true when you think about it) everyone will deal with it and move on. Will it be easy? No. However, they will deal with it, and they will move on. The person who is suicidal has come to the conclusion that they are no longer willing to deal with their situation and that this is the ONLY way out; death is better than continuing on.
I do understand that kids who are suicidal hit us in the feels because they may not have the ability to cope like adults typically do. I am not talking about kids here; I am talking about adults.
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I would also like to point out that the things that a lot of people deal with before killing themselves are sometimes pretty fucking traumatic. Losing a child is pretty fucking bad. Coming back from war and having to live with the things you have done and questioning those things for the rest of your life is pretty fucking traumatic. How about being given a diagnosis that is terminal? These people, if they are able, can talk about their depression and possibly suicidal thoughts, and people will usually empathize.
If you are seen as successful and living a “blessed” life and have those same thoughts, not many people are going to be terribly empathetic, I don’t think. This leads those same people to not wanting to discuss their feelings with anyone for fear that they will be thought of more or less as, “What the hell do you have to be depressed about?” Even if they aren’t treated that way, I think it’s safe to say that a lot of people would FEEL this way.
Most people would say that I have a charmed life, and for the most part, I can’t disagree. I have been dealt a pretty good hand and have been incredibly fortunate to not have had to deal with the loss of a child, a parent, my spouse, a devastating or nasty divorce (yet), infidelity, losing everything I have worked hard for, etc. I will admit that as much as I don’t think I would be suicidal if any of those things happened to me, I can’t say that I wouldn’t be, either. Everyone deals and copes with things differently, and some people simply feel they cannot go on. You don’t know what others are dealing with – including me, your friends, your kids, etc. I don’t think many people say after someone dies by suicide, “Yeah, I thought this might happen.”
This life and this world is a very stressful place, and I know I have said numerous times that if the plane I’m on goes down, I’ve had a good run. I don’t WANT to die, but I feel like I wouldn’t be screaming for the last few minutes of my life, begging a “God” for more time.
Could my reaction be different when the time comes? It could, but you can’t say it would with any certainty, and though I cannot either, most people that are afraid to die will readily admit it. I am not afraid to die, and that is coming from someone who doesn’t believe in an afterlife.
Now, please do not misconstrue my words to mean that I don’t care if I live or die because that is not what I am saying. My only real “fear” that I am aware of in relation to dying is I don’t want to deteriorate to nothing due to a disease. I hope that when my time comes, it is quick and painless and that up until it was my time, I had a great quality of life.
I explain my feelings around death because I think there is some sense of understanding on my part for those who die by suicide because those people have come to grips with dying. They have thought about it long and hard and have accepted it. Those who are offering other options and saying things like, “Suicide isn’t the way out” are people who almost certainly fear death. And on a side note, why would you fear death as a person of faith? Isn’t the afterlife the end-goal, anyway?
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I don’t want to see anyone die. I also don’t want to see people living in despair and massive depression, either. All I’m saying is that I think I understand more than most, and I also think that a lot of the way we respond to people who have these thoughts, is shitty, dismissive, and insensitive.
That’s my take – an OPINION. I know how it’s hard to listen to someone’s opinion when you don’t agree, but I’m asking for dialogue – not a fucking argument. I’ve had plenty of those lately. Let me know your thoughts in the comments below.
If you or a loved one is at risk for suicide, reach out to these resources. All hotlines listed below are available 24/7 and are confidential unless otherwise noted. In case of an emergency, call your local authorities.
- The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (US): 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line (US): Text "START" to 741741
- National Domestic Violence Hotline (US): 1-800-799-7233
- Veterans Crisis Line (US): 1-800-273-8255, press 1
- Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network/RAINN (US): 1-800-656-4673
- The Trevor Project (US crisis intervention for LGBTQ+ youth): 1-866-488-7386, text "START" to 678678, or instant message a counselor at thetrevorproject.org/get-help-
now - TWLOHA (US): Text "TWLOHA" to 741741
- Free online chat-counseling and therapy from trained volunteers (international): 7cups.com
- International lists of suicide hotlines and resources: suicide.org/international-
suicide-hotlines.html and twlo ha.com/find-help/ international-resources
You stated in your article "Most people would say that I have a charmed life, and for the most part, I can’t disagree. I have been dealt a pretty good hand and have been incredibly fortunate to not have had to deal with the loss of a child, a parent, my spouse, a devastating or nasty divorce (yet), infidelity, losing everything I have worked hard for, etc."
Well, let me clue you in on something........ We lost my brother 10 months ago to cancer that took only a year to eat him alive so, I can assure you of a few things. As a son of the parent who lost a child, every time i see her and every phone conversation I have with her, I know 100%, my mom's life will NEVER be the same because a part of her died inside. As her child, this is a mess that no matter what I do or how hard I try, I can never clean up and make it right or take away her suffering. Yet, every day my mother gets up out of bed and moves one step forward. I don't give a shit how much a person squats, benches, deadlifts or how many bodybuilding shows they prep for, Get up and move one step forward after you lost a child or as a child of that parent helping put the pieces of an impossible puzzle back together. That is what takes guts and balls.
Here is a thought.........
Everyone needs to get the fuck off of social media and learn to communicate like human beings again. Stop your fucking tweeting and Instagramming and start having real conversations on the phone or in person. We are not machines, we are humans with real feeling and emotions that need real human contact in order for us to survive.
I do hope that people read this article and emote - especially the people who are judging those who decide to take their own life.
To be clear, I have certainly dealt with loss, but it just hasn't been the type of loss that can sometimes send people over the edge. I believe that the large majority of people have the ability to cope and get through grief but some people simply cannot.
I agree with a lot of the points you make in your response, but I do take issue with the statement "that is what takes guts and balls." Again, going back to my point in the article, to say someone needs to have guts and balls is akin to saying that someone is a coward or selfish and is basically "taking the easy way out." Life is hard but I would imagine taking your own life is significantly more difficult.
I understand that you have personally dealt with suicide and I admit that I have not. I respect your opinion and your position for this reason. I only take issue with your one statement.
I used to look at suicide as being selfish. I would be like "WTF dude, how about us, the people, who you left behind? And what about your kids and family?" Like I said that's how I used to look at the person being successful with committing suicide.
Nowdays I look at it from the other way around and try to be happy for them and that they succeeded. I tell people to not talk bad and say that it was selfish etc... You have to understand that That person made a plan and made this decision on their own. Like you said, they thought about this a million times and have accepted death. They also thought about the people they would leave behind. So if someone decided to take their life, that's fine with me. If I knew the person that would suck and I surely would be sad but I definitely wouldn't bitch or be mad about.
Now, there is a huge difference between some dying from a disease and someone committing suicide. I doubt that there is any difference in the Size of the loss as it is hard to lose a loved one no matter how it happened. But the person with the disease is dying slowly over time or at least slower than the person committing suicide. When someone in the family is diagnosed with a terminal disease most of the time the family gets familiar with the situation and accepts it that there will be death or that the person with disease is dying. And before I get ripped apart, I wanna say that I work in the ICU and I see the dying process all the time. People die in my hands during cardiac arrest and others die over a much longer period of time. Most of the time, the families that are involved with the disease effected patient are accepting the situation and by the end it is a bit easier as they knew it would happen. That doesn't mean that they aren't sad but at least they had a chance to spend time with their loved one. Now with the suicidal person, this comes out of nowhere. This is much harder to deal with in the beginning compared to when people knew it was going to happen. So their is definitely a difference between those scenarios for the loved ones that are left behind.
Really enjoyed your article.
So, the question then becomes:
If you are suicidal without a terminal illness, do you continue to live in despair only because others may be hurt that you took your own life? I'm not asking you as much as I am asking everyone this question.
I find irony in a situation where someone labels someone who commits suicide as "selfish" because I feel that labeling someone selfish is actually a selfish statement.
I could lever expect someone to live in despair just to spare their loved ones or even to spare me. That would be incredibly selfish. Now, I would expect that the suicidal person would want to pursue avenues to help cope with their despair and hopelessness but I assume the large majority of people actually do. Again, I don't think someone wakes up one day and impulsively decides to kill themselves. I imagine it to be a very well thought-out process over time.
great post skip.
I couldn't agree more. My main point is that most people who pass judgment on someone who commits suicide truly cannot comprehend what that person has been dealing with. They THINK they can for some reason but by their response alone, they prove that they don't understand.
I am unsure of your age but I do wonder if you are young. When I was young, I had very little, had accomplished very little and hadn't spent 26 years with my wife (so far). If you are young, I can't even begin to get you to understand the crushing blow it would be to lose your wife of 26 years and the mother of your 4 children. Understand that this 26 years (or it could be more for someone else) is more time WITH my wife than WITHOUT my wife in this world. Someone who may only be married for a year or two likely could not even begin to understand how devastating that could be.
There are many other examples including losing children to devastating situations - EG: your child goes missing and is killed due to some mistake you made as a parent; your child is killed in a school shooting and you just cannot deal with it; you come back from a war and have to live with the things you have done and reintegrate back into a civil society; you are given a year to live after a diagnosis of brain cancer that you know will quickly have you deteriorate into a shell of yourself and the list goes on and on.
I'm not taking shots at you if you are young, but I am trying to point out that young people still have a lot of things they want to accomplish while us older folk have accomplished quite a bit in the years we have been alive and some of us don't care to watch our quality of life deteriorate to nothing and end up drooling on ourselves in a nursing home while someone else wipes shit off of our balls.
There is not always "another option."
I’ve grown up in an environment filled with violence, alcohol and drug abuse, and parental neglect/abuse, which has led to depression and lots of suicidal ideation. Self-evidently, I haven’t killed myself, but when I was younger, it’s been really damn close. Even if I didn’t commit suicide, who am I to judge other adults for their own decisions? The only time when suicide could be regarded somewhat “selfish”, in my opinion, is when you have underage children. But in the case of mental or severe physical illnesses (which almost always precede suicide attempts, naturally), even this gets trickier to evaluate.
Many people who judge others for their suicide attempts, failed or successful, are making their judgements based on their cultural background, whether they acknowledge it or not. Considering suicide as a morally unacceptable thing isn’t an universal phenomenon. In fact, there are multiple examples of cultures where suicide is regarded as a noble thing to do in certain situations, e.g., in order to spare their family from being ashamed after a disgraceful act. Religious values play a huge role when people make moral evaluations, but it should be kept in mind that not everyone holds the same values as you do.
And where do we draw the line when judging self-harm? Are hardcore powerlifting or bodybuilding the healthiest sports? Are we making choices that are in the best interest of our loved ones? Is chasing the most muscular physique or biggest numbers morally acceptable, whatever the cost, even if it shaves a decade or two from your life expectancy? Couldn't these be considered as forms of slow suicide?
Many people make the straw-man argument in claiming that when someone considers suicide to be included in an individual’s right for self-determination, this person is actually promoting suicide. This couldn’t be further from the truth, at least in my (and I’d dare to say in Skip’s) case. Instead, I’m promoting empathy. We should all be aware that our actions affect people surrounding us, especially children, and be more conscious of our choices if they might harm someone (in short or long term), even in the form of neglect, when we are pursuing our individual goals. And if someone is going through a crisis, we should try to help them as much as we can, and at the same time, be grateful of our own fortunate state of life. Understanding and helping others are skills that we should all improve.
I couldn't agree more with your comparison to bodybuilding potentially being a slower form of suicide. I have made this same argument many times before.
If I am being honest, I am very surprised that no one has come at me for my lack of religious belief and used the angle of suicide being considered a sin. In fact, I'm shocked.
I appreciate your response and i understand the point you disagree with. I think you may be confused or perhaps it was a typo (or perhaps you were being sarcastic but i hope not considering the topic) but, i never stated that i have ever dealt with suicide. My brother passed from cancer and my mom while suffering from the loss of her child, pushes on every day and is alive and doing the best she can. I was simply making the point that even with what many people consider being the worst and most unnatural event (losing a child) people find a way to dig deep and move forward. Now, i know that everyone is different and deals with loss, pain and suffering very differently and i would never intentionally pass judgment on someone who commits suicide because i have no doubt at that moment, they believe it is the best or only solution to stop there suffering. I should also state, i totally agree with the idea that if you are terminally ill, assisted suicide should be a legal option and personal choice. I clearly gave off the wrong impression in my response as i do not think suicide is an intentionally selfish act. Which is worse, to have the surprise of someone's death via suicide or to watch someone you love suffer and dissolve right in front of your eyes?
No, I certainly wasn't being sarcastic though I do have an honorary doctorate in sarcasm. :)
I read your response a couple of times and wrongly assumed that you meant that the situation you explained was a loss due to suicide.
I think we are both on the same page after reading your response. I honestly can't say that losing someone slowly over time is any easier or harder than a sudden loss. I think they both are horrible.
Thank you for clarifying.
I am glad to hear that you found help and I am also glad that you enjoyed the article.
However, at the risk of sounding argumentative, would it be safe to say that after you lost your mentor and friend, you had a better understanding of "how bad" it really was for him?
In the end I would not want anyone have to deal with things that they wouldn't to or live a miserable life just to be alive for others.. Nah, there's torture to that person. Let them go.
I am sorry to hear the loss of your brother. Just wanted to comment on your sentence on legal assisted suicide. Well, it does exist. It's called your living will or is part of it. You can do this at any time. I deal with a lot of patient and most of them are terminally ill. Most of them have the Will to be removed from life support. Oftentimes family has to make the final decision for the patient as the patient cannot speak or do anything. Then we refer to his or her wishes. I have done it many times but would not call that assisted suicide. I got your point though and this does exist.
First, thank you for your kind words. In regards to my comment on assisted suicide, i was more referring to the idea of going to another country to "drink to punch" and go to sleep. I believe it is legal in some state here is the USA but not sure.
Agreed. Thank you.
I had the privilege of hearing a speech from a man who survived jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. I want to say he is one of only 25 people to survive that fall out of over 1,700. He said that he had a voice in his head for weeks telling him to jump. When he finally made it onto the bridge, he made several running attempts at the railing until the voice in his head was so loud that he finally ran and cleared the railing. What was crazy, to me, about this story was when he said the second he cleared the railing the voice in his head went away and he instantly regretted his actions.
Additionally, as someone that has depression and a father with severe depression, it absolutely drives me crazy when people equate depression with sadness. In my experience depression is absent of feeling. This is coming from someone that was born with depression, because depression can be hereditary, a little known fact. I imagine that my experience with depression differs from those that suffer from a traumatic event like PTSD or several years of abuse. The point is no one persons depression is equal to another.
Your statement about depression and being sad and how depression can be a complete lack of any emotion I find very true, as well. I think almost every person on the planet, at one time or another, has delt with depression or being depressed. I know in my situation when this has happened, I can relate to not feeling sad, either. Very good point.
I am unsure about the hereditary component but I can see how there can be one because there seems to be hereditary components to damn never everything. Very good points and thanks for your response.